Academic Director Interview: LLM in Labour and Employment Law

John Craig is a leading thinker, practitioner, and academic in the field of labour and employment law, with numerous publications, teaching engagements, and representative opportunities to his name. As one of the Academic Directors of the Part-time Professional LLM in Labour and Employment Law, he helps guide a program designed for professionals who want to deepen their understanding of this complex and evolving field. 

We sat down with him to discuss his thoughts, experiences, and perceptions of both the LLM and the greater labour and employment law landscape.

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You have had a very successful career in the labour and employment law field. How would you advise those who are thinking about undertaking the LLM in Labour and Employment Law? What kinds of questions should they be asking themselves? 

I think the most important piece of advice I would have for a prospective applicant is to consider how an LLM could enhance their current career trajectory and what their hopes and expectations are for their future career. If you’re really going to enjoy the program and get the most out of it, then consider your professional

aspirations. 

As a practitioner, I appreciate that many prospective students are wondering how the program will help to advance their careers. When I get phone calls from lawyers or non-lawyers who are thinking of applying, they often ask me for my insight into how this program can help them move forward. We then have a conversation about how the program can enhance their professional practice, support their teaching and research, and allow them to position themselves as leading experts in the field. 

If you’re serious about being in this program, I think you also have to start with a real interest or passion for labour and employment law. It has to be something you’re interested in, have experience with, and are curious about. 

You may have a sense of the nuts and bolts of the current laws, but our program looks at more complex issues – historical perspectives, competing theories, international law, etc. We also draw from top academics who bring different perspectives and views. Passion for the field is essential and is the main thing you need to be successful. 

By the way, some of our students decide to pursue the program because of their interest and curiosity in labour and employment law, rather than for career advancement. That’s perfectly fine! 

Can you talk a bit about your experience in the classroom? How do you challenge your students and how would you say they challenge you? 

Oh, they challenge me all the time! That’s the best part of teaching, right? 

I am a comparative labour lawyer, so I’m a big believer in looking at the solutions that other jurisdictions have come up with, how they operate, etc. I challenge my students by presenting them with the laws, regulations, and debates that happen in countries other than Canada and provinces other than Ontario. I look at international labour law. 

Practically speaking, I ask lots of questions, put cases forward, and ask the students to break into small groups. For example, I will introduce a fact pattern and have the students convene in groups of 5–6 to discuss the issues, the applicable theoretical principles, and practical solutions. Lawyers and non-lawyers contribute to the debate and it’s fun to see what they come up with. We encourage participation and we expect our students to be involved, challenge each other, and challenge the professor. 

Recently, I had a student in class who had a lot of knowledge of international labour law and was far more involved in the ILO than me. She was able to post recent reports and documents for the class to review. One of the key aspects of a graduate program is what you learn from your peers! 

How would you describe the relationship between lawyers and non-legal professionals in the program?

You might be surprised by how much law the non-lawyers actually know. 

The non-lawyers in our program typically have graduate degrees in related areas and/or deep experience in industrial relations, human resources, and related fields. So, the distinctions between lawyer and non-lawyer melt away quickly in our classes. Non-lawyers also have a lot of insights about policy. We talk about legal principles and policy issues and the solutions that are out there. They’re well situated to engage in that broad-based debate because of where they’re situated in the field. 

Meanwhile, I always tell the students who don’t have law degrees that if there’s a legal issue that comes up in the classroom or if I say something that’s unclear, to please ask – at break, in the moment, whenever. Let me know and I’ll help to explain it. We are legal academics, and occasionally we fall back on obscure legal terminology – although we try not to. 

What is a hot topic in the field of labour and employment law at the moment? What has personally sparked your professional or research-oriented interests? 

A hot topic that is very relevant is privacy. It’s always been a really important topic – nationally, regionally, internationally. But COVID has brought privacy matters into relief in stark ways, including working from home, COVID testing, vaccination policies, and more. It’s now important enough that there should be a course about it. That’s why we decided to offer a privacy class.  

Privacy is actually a field that I’ve been researching since grad school in the ’90s. I did a comparative review of privacy law in various countries 25 years ago. The Europeans were doing a lot in the early ’90s and Canada was far behind. That’s largely why I pursued the topic in my graduate degree – there was a lot of opportunity for fresh research. I’ve continued engaging with it both in practice and in academia. 

Can you talk a bit about where you see labour and employment law going over the next few years and what aspirations you might have for the LLM? 

I’m very optimistic about the field. I’ve always found it an exciting area since it’s a perfect meeting place for law, policy, theoretical issues, and people. If you’re someone who likes issues that have a broad impact, then labour and employment law is for you. 

The reason I’m optimistic is because of the importance of labour and employment law during the pandemic. The field has generated debates and innovative ideas focused on modernizing how we regulate the workplace. I’m optimistic about the relevance of the field and its ability to attract the top thinkers and minds to generate ideas and address issues. 

We review the program every year, including the topical areas covered and the faculty members. We continually look for opportunities to expand and up our game. 

Who knows what we may have to address in our classes and what opportunities may come to us? There are lots of ideas about what the program should look like and how it should evolve. 

Do you have a favourite memory or experience you can share from your time at OsgoodePD? 

My best memory is from after the end of my Employment Regulation class.

 It was a long, intensive class with great group discussions. The students spontaneously decided to go out for drinks and invited me. There were probably 10–15 of us. We just chatted until 8 or 9 p.m., got to know each other better, and they gave me feedback on the class and the program. 

It was something I haven’t really experienced before – my undergraduate law students don’t typically invite me out after class! Our students are a diverse group and there’s a sense of collegiality. We were able to go out and have a wonderful time. I really enjoyed it.